{"id":770,"date":"2009-02-12T13:09:01","date_gmt":"2009-02-12T12:09:01","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/www.i-base.info\/qa\/?p=770"},"modified":"2018-08-10T12:17:27","modified_gmt":"2018-08-10T12:17:27","slug":"can-you-comment-on-these-herb-and-selenium-studies","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/i-base.info\/qa\/770","title":{"rendered":"Can you comment on these herb and selenium studies?"},"content":{"rendered":"<p>Thanks for all these links. It is great to see you going into such detail. It is really important to go into the full research behind any study before drawing conclusions. This is especially important if you are going to use the information as part of your health care or treatment.<\/p>\n<p>I&#8217;m don&#8217;t have expertise in the biochemistry details of drug development but the olive leaf, astragalus root and green tea studies are all very preliminary studies looking at whether these compounds have activity against HIV in the lab. As with my initial post, any positive findings may be the basis for developing a drug, but this still involves a lot more research, and at any stage, even promising compounds can still fail.<\/p>\n<p>Sometimes the active ingredient can&#8217;t be formulated in a way that the body absorbs, or the test tube results can&#8217;t be duplicated in humans. Very commonly, extremely impressive compounds end up with unpredictable side effects that stop the development. This is just as likely to happen with compounds derived from &#8216;natural&#8217; sources as form those designed based on their chemical structure.<\/p>\n<p>Many established drugs do come from natural sources. Two famous examples are <a href=\"http:\/\/en.wikipedia.org\/wiki\/Artemisinin\" rel=\"nofollow\">artemisinin<\/a> for malaria (developed from a Chinese herb) and <a href=\"http:\/\/en.wikipedia.org\/wiki\/Rifamycin\" rel=\"nofollow\">rifamycin<\/a> an essential TB drug, developed from a natural antibiotic found in a soil sample in France.<\/p>\n<p>This is why environmental issues are important to all of us. We will never know the potential of lost species of plants, animals, bacteria etc once they have gone &#8211; and they are being lost at an alarming rate. The best HIV drug could be based on a compound found in a the bark of a tree in the rain forest.<\/p>\n<p>An important caution though is that the source compounds are not active against HIV as a treatment now &#8211; they are just potential for research &#8211; like thousands of other compounds that may, or may not finally, find a clinical use.<\/p>\n<p>The selenium link is more interesting because it is a well designed study in people with HIV. It is randomised and placebo controlled, both of which are essential to know if there is a real effect. It also has a reasonably large number of participants (although a lot drop out in the study) and it measures viral load and CD4 count.<\/p>\n<p>If you are interested in trial design from a community perspective see <a href=\"http:\/\/www.i-base.info\/manual\/en\/8.html\" rel=\"nofollow\">this online resource<\/a> in the treatment manual.<br \/>\nSo, there is a lot to go into, but most of the study reports effect of selenium supplementation on selenium levels. As you would hope, levels increase from the supplement and this is related to adherence.<\/p>\n<p>The impact on viral load though is very small in real terms: 0.2 log increases over 9 months in the placebo group compared to no viral load increase in people taking selenium. This level of change (20%) would be too small to be likely to have any clinical effect (most drugs have a minimum of 0.5 log and usually much more &#8211; some over 3.0 logs), and is too small to be considered real in any individual because it is less that the error margin for variability for viral load tests: a viral load test can be 30% higher or lower and still count as the same result.<\/p>\n<p>The study acknowledges its own limitations on this from only having two measurements &#8211; one at the start and one after 9 months. All sorts of other factors could account for the small difference seen and not having more regular results to see whether there was a steady trend would need to be confirmed.<\/p>\n<p>From this study I would think that the main interest in selenium will continue to be based on any effect it may have on the immune system rather than any direct activity against HIV.<\/p>\n<p>I hope this long answer is helpful &#8211; thanks for taking the discussion to this level.<\/p>\n<p>Everything you are doing for your own health care sounds fine &#8211; good luck with everything.<br \/>\nPS &#8211; I have also posted this as a new question so other might find it easily.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Hi, I was reading your response to other questions on herbal medicine and I wanted to get your opinion on each of the studies below this comment.<\/p>\n<p>I understand that there has been no clinical trials of these substances in humans outside of the selenium study, but I was curious of your opinion.<\/p>\n<p>I enjoy reading the responses on this site and I am currently taking not unusual amounts daily of all the minerals and herbs mentioned in the articles below. I drink a pot of green tea per day and I eat 4-5 brazil nuts to get selenium.<\/p>\n<p>I exercise daily for an hour, I am 35 and healthy every day since I tested positive for HIV over 1 year ago. My viral load lingers at 20, 000 or below and my T-cells have improved from 301 about 5 months after my positive test to 463 at my latest lab.<\/p>\n<p>I am not taking ARVs and I do not plan on starting absent dramatic changes in my health. My own doctor ignores me when I ask about these articles. She is quite well respected so I continue seeing her in the interest of hearing opinions contrary to my own. Even though she agrees right now that I do not need to start ARVs.<\/p>\n<p>I look forward to your comments.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":2,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[7,40],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-770","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-all-topics","category-supplements-and-herbs"],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/i-base.info\/qa\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/770","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/i-base.info\/qa\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/i-base.info\/qa\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/i-base.info\/qa\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/2"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/i-base.info\/qa\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=770"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"https:\/\/i-base.info\/qa\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/770\/revisions"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/i-base.info\/qa\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=770"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/i-base.info\/qa\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=770"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/i-base.info\/qa\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=770"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}